http://www.novinite.com/forum/ Sofia News Agency Forum en 2001-2012 Novinite Ltd. http://www.novinite.com/forum_view.php?main_id=219933&post_id=219941#219941 MichaelMcFadden Sun, 20 May 2012 00:52:20 +0200 Chuski, you're simply showing your silliness here. I'd suggest returning to the main topic and at least making an attempt to provide some proper studies to support your position. - MJM 219941 http://www.novinite.com/forum_view.php?main_id=219830&post_id=219940#219940 MichaelMcFadden Sun, 20 May 2012 00:48:48 +0200 "Maybe," would you care to identify yourself and stand behind your words? I hope you realize that a libel lawsuit from someone like Dr. Siegel could probably force a trackdown of your IP address, so I'd suggest you either make your claims openly or offer an apology and retraction. As far as I'm concerned myself, if you look back on this thread you'll find I fully identified myself and my potential "competing interest" in my signature as "Author of 'Dissecting Antismokers' Brains' " If you visit my primary website at http://www.antibrains.com you will find that I addressed your concern clearly in the first two sentences of the Preface to my book: === I am not now, nor have I ever, been a member of the Communist Party. I am also not now, nor have I ever, been affiliated with Big Tobacco or their stocks, nor do I have any plans to be. === I believe Iro Cyr and several of the other professionals quoted by Dave that you libeled might also be interested in following this up with you. - MJM 219940 http://www.novinite.com/forum_view.php?main_id=219830&post_id=219939#219939 maybe Sun, 20 May 2012 00:19:32 +0200 Yeah, we should continue poisoning ourselves, then. I am sick and tired of this economic justifications for supporting smoking. You are funded by tobacco companies, aren't you? 219939 http://www.novinite.com/forum_view.php?main_id=219830&post_id=219938#219938 maybe Sun, 20 May 2012 00:15:27 +0200 Davy C! How much money did you get from the tobacco companies? Stop putting forth "front doctors" testimony as real. They are all funded by tobacco companies because they are going to lose a lot of money with this ban... 219938 http://www.novinite.com/forum_view.php?main_id=219830&post_id=219937#219937 MichaelMcFadden Sat, 19 May 2012 20:40:47 +0200 CASPER, the Alcohol Prohibitionists got their butt kicked badly 75 years ago. They made a big mistake, although unavoidable at the time period: they tried to impose a Prohibition without properly brainwashing the public first, and they tried doing it largely in one fell swoop rather than properly conditioning the population through small, step-by-step measures first. The Smoking Prohibitionists learned from that lesson. I actually spent the last Appendix (Beyond Tobacco...) of my book writing specifically to that lesson and predicting that alcohol will indeed be next on the chopping block. The incrementalists in the alcohol area have been on the march since the generally GOOD movement embodied in the early MADD campaign. I believe the founder of MADD actually quit a number of years ago out of disgust with the way that early work was being turned into a general Prohibitionist wedge. - MJM 219937 http://www.novinite.com/forum_view.php?main_id=219830&post_id=219936#219936 MichaelMcFadden Sat, 19 May 2012 20:37:06 +0200 VIKING, you criticize the conclusion of the study without offering a single note of criticism of its data or methodology. The facts and numbers noted in the tables at http://kuneman.smokersclub.com/economic.html are simple facts and numbers. Yes, they show an EXCEPTIONALLY strong "correlation" between the imposed smoking bans and the economic trends in their wakes. Viking, I studied graduate level microeconomic theory for two years while working toward a(n uncompleted) Ph.D. at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School. I gained a healthy respect for the concept of multiplier effects. Ever hear the nursery rhyme that starts out with "For want of a nail a horseshoe was lost..."? If you have concrete criticisms of the study's methodology or find fault with the cited figures upon checking the sources, please share. Otherwise -- you can't blame me: just the reality of the numbers. Plus you might want to examine some of the other studies cited/referenced on that page: they all lead toward the same general conclusion: government-imposed universal smoking bans are horribly economically destructive to bars and the hospitality industry in general. - MJM 219936 http://www.novinite.com/forum_view.php?main_id=219830&post_id=219935#219935 MichaelMcFadden Sat, 19 May 2012 20:31:58 +0200 MATT, indeed, if you're arguing for the ban from the standpoint of preference and esthetics I can't really fault you too strongly. However, I would ask this one question: If indeed feelings such as yours are common enough to justify a nationwide government imposed ban reaching into and effectively confiscating the rights of control over the private property of bar owners and other businesses -- they why didn't those owners institute bans on their own? Are you saying that Bulgarian business owners are too stupid to understand what their clientele wants? Or that they have some leftover historical distaste for making money? Or what? To return to your peeing example for a moment, you'll note that there are no pools that openly invite their patrons to pee while swimming. Any who tried would very quickly find that they'd have few swimmers. So what explanation do you have for what you seem to feel was the almost absolute dearth of bars and restaurants that banned smoking? - MJM 219935 http://www.novinite.com/forum_view.php?main_id=219830&post_id=219934#219934 Chushki Sat, 19 May 2012 19:30:29 +0200 Comparative statistics...... $4.6 billion - estimated value of worldwide smoking cessation drug market by 2016 $12.49 billion - actual amount spent by tobacco companies on advertising in USA alone in 2006 219934 http://www.novinite.com/forum_view.php?main_id=219933&post_id=219933#219933 Chushki Sat, 19 May 2012 19:25:34 +0200 1. Do you accept that humankind has contributed significantly to global warming? 2. Do you believe a man has ever been put on the moon? 3. Is there a global elite that is either in control of the world, or is seeking to take control of the world? 219933 http://www.novinite.com/forum_view.php?main_id=219830&post_id=219932#219932 Chushki Sat, 19 May 2012 19:24:29 +0200 Iro As I stated before - your arguments are ridiculous. There are many, many studies that show a reduced risk in contracting a smoking related disease the longer you have quit smoking - just because the CDC study you cite does not capture this information does not mean it is not true. It also does not mean there is a big worldwide conspiracy - unless of course you're wearing a tin foil hat. 219932